
Hello everyone! Welcome to Life with Charli for those who are visiting for the first time! Welcome back to those who are familiar with my blog! In this post, I’m very excited to welcome a special guest! Her name is Pamela Topjian! She is a mental health and holistic health advocate! She runs the podcast Holistic Connections: Conversations with holistic practitioners, and she has a YouTube channel where you can also find her podcast videos! She is also the author of two memoirs. Her first memoir is called “I Didn’t Come This Far, to Only Come THIS Far”. Pamela shares the trauma she experienced throughout her life, including abuse in her first two marriages, in this memoir. Her second memoir is Behind The Mask, Scrubs and Gloves, which touches on her experience as a nurse. I had the pleasure of interviewing Pamela recently, and I share part our conversation in this post! I hope you gain inspiration from reading this.
Content warning: talk of abuse and suicide. If you or a loved one us experiencing abuse please reach out for help. If you live in the United States, click here to contact the National Demostic Violence Hotline. If you or a loved one is considering self harm, contact the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline. Call or text 988 at any time.
Enjoy the interview!
Tell me about your current healthy marriage. How did you find the courage to trust and find love again after your abusive past relationships?
Pamela
That’s a very good question, cause I always said “I’ll never marry again, I’ll never marry again”, and I wasn’t even dating for a relationship. I wouldn’t have been able to without going through therapy first. I had to look at what I learned from my past and knowing how I got to that point in my life with the first two marriages, and then looking at what I would do differently.
This is kinda one of the things we went through in therapy is, like, ok this situation with this past relationship, what would you do differently now? Or what are some red flags that you maybe missed or ignored at that time? So learning from the past relationships is what helped me to be in a healthier relationship now. And then, you know, gaining self respect and learning what is acceptable and having healthy boundaries as well. Being able to say no to whatever doesn’t feel right for me, or whatever feels disrespectful, or doesn’t feel safe, you know? So through therapy is the main answer. You know? I would not have been able to be in a healthy relationship, not without going through therapy.
Charli
Wow! Absolutely. Absolutely. I completely understand that. And how did therapy help you to love yourself and trust that person with your love?
Pamela
Yeah, it was just through connecting the dots and through understanding how I got to that place in my life. You know? How I got to that place. Cause going through therapy was during a mental breakdown, which we touch on later in these questions. I was at the lowest I’ve ever been, so you learn to connect the dots and connect those puzzle pieces, and figure out how did I get to this low point from where I came from. How did I get here? And then being able to understand all that really helps to gain self confidence. And talking about what you’ve learned from it all makes you trust yourself more again.
It’s like “oh ok”, cause, you know, so many people will say “oh my picker is broken” if they keep having bad relationships one after the other. But what they don’t understand is that can be sort of fixed.
Well, that’s not the best term to use in mental health the term “fixed”, but when people say “my picker is broken”, then you can fix that picker, really, by learning from the past mistakes rather than just saying “oh this terrible thing happened. Oh this terrible thing happened”, and looking at it as “what did I learn from that?, What was good that came out from that? What would I do differently now?”, or what was good out of that? But also what was not acceptable from that. What was the point that was this was too much, this was unacceptable? So learning from those things really makes a big difference.
Charli
Absolutely! Absolutely! I get that! Like, knowing what to accept and what you shouldn’t accept in a relationship. Learning about that. Beautiful. Beautiful.
Tell me about the title of your first memoir “I didn’t come this far to only come this far”. What made you give your book this title?
Pamela
So when I first went through therapy, during that mental breakdown, I felt like I climbed out a very deep dark hole, and so I couldn’t do everything that it took to claw myself out of that deep dark hole and then just sit at the edge of that cliff. You know what I mean? I didn’t come all the way through that to just be here at this place. You know? At the edge of it and not move forward.
So I had to move away from it. I couldn’t have just made it through all that I did, all those suicidal thoughts, and all the work that I had done for healing, I couldn’t just get there and be like “ok, ok. Now I feel better. I’m just gonna sit here at the edge of this cliff and look down at that deep dark hole and be like ‘I made it!’. For me anyway, I felt like you had to keep going to make my life purposeful. I might not have made it, so there has to be a reason. So I didn’t come all this way, I didn’t come this far to only come this far. You know?
What moment or breakthrough during your solo cross-country trip made you say, “I didn’t come this far to only come this far”?
Pamela
I don’t feel like I was really feeling that way at the time. Really, that was after therapy, like I just explained, which was after the bus ride. But just the fact that I was still alive after having a plan for suicide, I had to just hang on to hope. So, just the fact that I didn’t carry out that plan, and I got on that bus, and I was going for a last ditch effort to move far away for a fresh start, whatever. The same kinda thing. I’m not still here for no reason. So it’s just really holding on to hope.
Charli
Absolutely. Beautiful. I like that. I think a lot of times we find that moment where we say “ok, I just feel like I wanna keep going” like you said before. I wanna keep pushing forward. This up, an upward motion. Sometimes it takes that moment for us to find that breakthrough.
Pamela
Right. Yeah, I think they talk about rock bottom. It’s usually with alcoholism, or drug addiction, or something, but you can totally hit rock bottom in other ways. Even not having to do with substance abuse or anything, but just your own trauma can make you drop down to that rock bottom place to where you’re anxious, and depressed, and suicidal, and unable to function. Even that can be your rock bottom that you have to decide at that point “Am I gonna stay under this rock or try to get out of it?”.
Writing a memoir takes incredible vulnerability. Did you find the 5-year process of writing your story to be triggering?
Pamela
Absolutely. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It felt really important to do though. So honestly, I knew that it was healing. It was cathartic writing it all out. And I started writing it all out as a journal as I was going through therapy. I was writing as a journal to help myself connect those dots and put those puzzle pieces together. So that was the reason I was writing it. But then later, decided I was gonna publish it and turn it in to a memoir.
So yeah, during the time of writing it, I was having flashbacks, and I hadn’t had flashbacks before, flashbacks of abuse. I was having nightmares. But yeah, just understanding how I got to those points in life, and like I said, connecting the dots, and putting those puzzle pieces together, and being able to get it out of me, to write it down and get all those words and experiences out of me and down out on paper was really healing. And so, it was triggering, but I knew it was one of those hurdles you had to go through.
Charli
Wow. Wow. Really interesting. What particularly made you decide I want people to know about my journey, about this and to publish it?
Pamela
Yeah, so I was reading other memoirs and during the time I was in therapy, and I was writing my journal, and I was reading memoirs of other women who had made it out of difficult situations, a lot of them much more horrific than what I had been through, but I know that so many women, so many people, have been through the same kinds of things that I have.
I mean, nobody has the same exact lives or stories, but people go through similar things. So I knew that there was plenty of women, too many women, who had been through similar situations that I have been through. And so I thought, as I was reading theses other ones, it helped me to realize, oh, if they can get out of that horrific situation to go on to love their life and not just survive but to thrive, if they can do it, why not me? You know? So I felt like my story can be helpful to someone too. Cause a lot of those stories, as I was talking about before, a lot of those stories are people who had been through addiction or substance abuse, or something that might be a little bit different than my story, and things that we hear more about, those kinds of stories. Or people who have been through really really horrific things that people can’t even imagine, like child trafficking and stuff like that, or cult abuse, and just really really horrific things. Or even a lot of physical and sexual abuse and stuff throughout their childhood, some really really horrific things, and they want to get out of it. So I felt like my story was a little more relatable to a lot of people. I just thought, oh my story might help somebody too.
Charli
Amazing! And to piggyback off of our other questions, it’s amazing that you were inspired by other stories. For me personally, I know that made me want to receive help, and that made me also want to share my journey too. So for you, when you started receiving help, did others inspire you to also recieve help?
Pamela
I wouldn’t say that others did. So I started therapy because I had went to the doctor. I was a nurse at the time, and I was thinking more medical and I thought “We’ll I can’t sleep and I have so much anxiety”. I was going to the doctor for something to help me sleep, cause that just makes everything worse if you’re not sleeping. And I was having nightmares and stuff too when I did fall asleep. So even the act of trying to fall asleep was causing anxiety, cause I had so many bad nightmares.
So I went to the doctor and it was the doctor who said “yes, I’ll give you some medication, but I also want to have you go to therapy”. So yeah, it was really the doctor. I didn’t have people in my life encouraging me to go to therapy. It was the doctor.
Charli
And when the doctor told you you should go to therapy, what was your response? Were you hesitant to go to therapy?
Pamela
Well at the time, and this is so funny, but at the time, I didn’t know why I was having this reaction. So I had just had a second divorce from an abusive marriage, and when I divorced him I thought, and this is just before the mental breakdown, I thought “oh my gosh everything’s gonna be wonderful now”. You know what I mean? I was just so excited to not have that in my life anymore, to be on my own, but then everything from my childhood and my whole life just came crashing down on me and I spiraled downward. But at the time I didn’t realize it.
When I was at the doctor’s office, I did not realize what was causing all of this. And I thought “what am I gonna say to a therapist? I can’t get over my second divorce? Even though I’m the one who divorced and it was abusive and I wanted out and I needed out?” It wasn’t the person. I wasn’t missing him. It wasn’t like that. It was just I was fearful all the time.
One of the reasons I moved far was partially because I didn’t know if I would see him at the grocery store or he would show up at my job. He didn’t know where I had moved, but I didn’t know if he stayed in the same town. So I was always fearful, and I thought that was the reason. So when it continued after I moved half way across the country, I was so confused as to why this was happening.
So when the doctor told me that, I thought “what am I gonna say to the therapist?”. I was like “I don’t even know what I’m gonna say, but if you think so”. And to be honest with you, the doctor really wanted me to go into a facility. You wouldn’t recognize me. I mean, the person I was sitting in the doctor’s office, I was ringing my hands, I was almost shaking. I could not focus. To sit in a waiting room with other people, it was so scary to me. To drive there was a really difficult task. Just to drive to the doctor’s office, or to go to a store. A lot of times I’d go to a store and I’d leave before I got everything I need cause I just could not handle it. So, he wanted me to go into a facility, and I was like “I’m not suicidal. I don’t wanna go into a facility”. And I promised that I would be ok, and that I would definitely go to that first appointment. So I talked him out of it actually, which is surprising. I talked him out of sending me some place and started out-patient therapy.
So, I want to mention something else that I was thinking about when you talked about the reason for writing the memoir. Another reason is I’ve got two adult children, and I thought if the suicidal thoughts won, if I wasn’t gonna make it out of this, I wanted them to have the whole picture as to what happened. This was Mom’s life. This is what happened. This is what happened that got her to that point in life. And I wanted them to have that story. And then also my father died young, my mother now has the beginnings of dementia, and I don’t have a whole lot of information on their childhood and even young adult life. I would like my kids, when I’m gone, to have it all written out. You know? Cause I would have loved to have that with my parents.
Charli
That’s touching! Wow! To have your children know this is your Mom’s story.
Pamela
Yeah. And I think that would be really cool. I don’t have grandchildren yet. I mean, I still may, but even with nieces and nephews, or their children, I’m gonna be somebody’s ancestor someday. And I think it would be really cool if I had some ancestor, some great aunt, or even a great great grandmother, or somebody from long long ago, if I had a memoir of their whole life story…
Charli
Oh that would be amazing! It would be so amazing to know this is what was going on in their time, this is what was going on in their life. I think that’s amazing.
What advice do you have for blog readers who want to share their own trauma stories but are terrified of being judged?
Pamela
I would let them know that it can be incredibly healing to get it all out of you, whether you write about it or talk about it like on podcasts, it helps, but to also know that it can help others to not feel so alone, because others have been through so much that they don’t talk about and they feel so alone in their pain. So, those that judge may not have had similar experiences, and they just don’t understand how it can feel for somebody, or they have, maybe, and think that you should just keep things secret and not air dirty laundry or put your trauma out there for the public to see. But keep in mind how helpful it can be for those who are afraid to speak about it, and it may even save a life.
So, as you age, when you’re younger you might worry about being judged, but as you age you don’t care as much what other people think. But also if they’re judging, that’s just showing that they don’t understand, and that’s ok. Not everybody is going to understand. You know? You just have to know that it’s something that’s important to you and very helpful to you, and that’s what matter’s most. Even if others are gonna judge it.
Charli
I love that! I love that, because a lot of women don’t report or want to report their abuse, they don’t report their trauma, and they don’t tell their story. And it can be so encouraging, it can be so helpful, to hear someone else share their story. And they can feel open to sharing “this is what happened to me”.
Pamela
Yeah. And I think I answered this in other questions too, but it helps to know somebody made it out of that. It’s not just a story of trauma, it’s also a story of healing at the end.
Charli
Yes! I love that point of view! I mean, yes you’ve been a victim, but you also are a survivor. You’ve made it through that point in your life where you can say “I made it through that. I’m strong”.
Pamela
Yeah. And just knowing that somebody else did, that helps to know that you can too.
Your life is a masterclass in starting over. What mindset shift is required to successfully reinvent yourself when everything feels broken?
Pamela
So before I answer this, this is my third book. So I’m writing my third book about reinventing myself. The first book is so much trauma and everything I’ve been through, and at the end it’s about healing. The second book is everything I’ve been through as a nurse. I wanted to write a book that was focused more on the healing and the rebuilding than all the trauma. So yeah.
So I guess the mindset shift is to have hope and know it’s possible. That and to learn from the past and to have gratitude for everything positive in your life. That’s the mindset that you have to have as you’re rebuilding. Not to focus on all the trauma, and not to focus on all the things that were bad, but to focus on, and even if you’re writing everything out that was traumatic, focus on what’s good now.
You know, a lot of my childhood we were hungry. We lived in poverty. We didn’t have food to eat a lot of the time. So even just to be thankful for a meal. You don’t have to be religious to give thanks for your meal. Every little thing really. I mean, if you have ever lived in poverty, you know you are wearing your clothes until the last thread. You can’t get a lot of things you even really need a lot of the time, let alone things you want. So every little thing, be thankful for that. And I think holding on to that gratitude helps you to reach for more as you’re going through your healing.
What advice do you have for people who feel it is too late in life to make changes or achievements?
Pamela
Making changes can be done as long as you have your mind and you have your breath. It’s really never too late. It can start with just knowing that it’s possible and holding on to hope. You don’t have to know where or how to achieve that big goal, but one small change or movement in the direction at the time is all it takes. You don’t have to know “how am I gonna get there from here? It’s like you’re at the bottom of that hole and it’s like “I don’t know how I’m gonna get up at the top. I just know that I want to. I’m just gonna keep climbing one little step at a time”. That reminded me of that quote “you don’t have to take the whole staircase at once”. You just take it one step at a time. You don’t have to see the whole staircase. If you’re driving somewhere, you don’t have to see the destination to drive there. You’re just going one mile at a time.
Charli
I love that. I think a lot of people will be encouraged by that. I know for me, I’m a perfectionist. I know “I want to get to this route”. And I wanna plan everything, and “this is how I wanna get there, this is where I wanna go”. And sometimes when things don’t happen the way I want them to, I get so bent out of shape, I get so down. And I think it’s encouraging to know take your time. You don’t have to be perfect to get to your destination. You don’t even have to perfectly know your destination.
Pamela
Right. And sometimes it can be one steps forward and two steps back. Just inching your way up, you know? I changed careers in my 50s. I took took new classes and courses in my 50s. I started therapy when I was 50. I started painting. I wrote my memoirs in my 50s. I’m 60 now. I’m writing a third memoir. And there people that are much older that are famous people. You can easily look it up. What famous people didn’t start till they were much older? There’s plenty of them that you know of, that you’ve heard of, that didn’t start until much later in life.
So if you’re feeling like you’re too old, like I said, if you still have your mind about you and you’re still breathing, you can make changes for the better.
Thankyou, Pamela, for taking the time to do this interview! It was truly a pleasure and honor speaking with you!
Get to know Pamela more!
Find her on her podcast, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok
Buy her first book: I Didn’t Come This Far, to Only Come THIS Far
Buy her second book: Behind The Mask, Scrubs and Gloves











